f-f-fashion
Apr. 28th, 2012 07:13 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
rachel2205.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
konstantoocSo something I've been wondering about is what the heck people wear in Kostantiniyye. I've been doing a bit of thinking about this, but would appreciate your feedback too, especially since I know how some of you are historical costume geeks :)
Given just how AU our world is in some respects, it's difficult to chart a course of fashion history. Now, I've chosen 1850 as a reasonably arbitrary start date for our game, which in the West in our world is full of clothes like this. But in a world that's already well into its industrial revolution, plus a world with less power disparity between the genders, the typical Victorian costumes make less sense. Meanwhile, Ottoman fashion of the same period was a mishmash of the huge range of cultures that society both influenced and was influenced by. (These are obvious basic wikipedia links but they are a reasonable place to start if you've not read much on fashion history.) Meanwhile, in Kostantiniyye itself, fashions are bound to be an amalgam of the different cultures. I don't want to be too proscriptive in saying what people wear, but if we try to come up with a general vibe of clothing that would be seen as relatively acceptable that would probably be good!
For women, my starting point from a western perspective is a combination of the Victorian dress reform movement and the Turquerie trends of the C16th-18th. The crinoline doesn't seem to me as likely a trend in this world, but bloomers seem rational - modest, allowing movement, and cooler in the Turkish heat than heavy skirts. They bear some similarities to female costume in the Ottoman period too.
For both Jewish and Muslim communities, religious regulations regarding clothing ensure modesty for both men and women (though note that these laws allow for a great deal of flexibility and variety in culture and fashion terms), and given the power of the Ottoman Empire, I imagine this has influenced European trends too. But I think we'd be more likely to see looser, flowing lines in fashion rather than the tighter fits of the late Victorian/early Edwardian period. Perhaps this is a point where New England is diverging a bit (especially since the British are self-consciously trying to raise their global profile) and perhaps are a bit more scandalous with, for instance, showing of decotellage or men wearing breeches - though I imagine that anyone who planned to settle in Kostantiniyye rather than just passing through would modify their clothes somewhat. So a British man might not go wholesale Turkish and start wearing kaftan and looselegged şalvar, but he might change his breeches for trousers...
Also worth noting that this industrialised age allows for mass-produced clothes, widening the possibilities of what people buy, although the well-to-do are likely to still prefer to go to their tailor.
Here are some pics of male and female fashion that I think could be useful pointers. If you have other ideas, please leave them in comments for discussion! I would say that in this city, you could probably get away with quite a lot of different looks as long as you're not, say, going about in a mini-skirt or have a bare head. (SO many awesome hat possibilities!)
Given just how AU our world is in some respects, it's difficult to chart a course of fashion history. Now, I've chosen 1850 as a reasonably arbitrary start date for our game, which in the West in our world is full of clothes like this. But in a world that's already well into its industrial revolution, plus a world with less power disparity between the genders, the typical Victorian costumes make less sense. Meanwhile, Ottoman fashion of the same period was a mishmash of the huge range of cultures that society both influenced and was influenced by. (These are obvious basic wikipedia links but they are a reasonable place to start if you've not read much on fashion history.) Meanwhile, in Kostantiniyye itself, fashions are bound to be an amalgam of the different cultures. I don't want to be too proscriptive in saying what people wear, but if we try to come up with a general vibe of clothing that would be seen as relatively acceptable that would probably be good!
For women, my starting point from a western perspective is a combination of the Victorian dress reform movement and the Turquerie trends of the C16th-18th. The crinoline doesn't seem to me as likely a trend in this world, but bloomers seem rational - modest, allowing movement, and cooler in the Turkish heat than heavy skirts. They bear some similarities to female costume in the Ottoman period too.
For both Jewish and Muslim communities, religious regulations regarding clothing ensure modesty for both men and women (though note that these laws allow for a great deal of flexibility and variety in culture and fashion terms), and given the power of the Ottoman Empire, I imagine this has influenced European trends too. But I think we'd be more likely to see looser, flowing lines in fashion rather than the tighter fits of the late Victorian/early Edwardian period. Perhaps this is a point where New England is diverging a bit (especially since the British are self-consciously trying to raise their global profile) and perhaps are a bit more scandalous with, for instance, showing of decotellage or men wearing breeches - though I imagine that anyone who planned to settle in Kostantiniyye rather than just passing through would modify their clothes somewhat. So a British man might not go wholesale Turkish and start wearing kaftan and looselegged şalvar, but he might change his breeches for trousers...
Also worth noting that this industrialised age allows for mass-produced clothes, widening the possibilities of what people buy, although the well-to-do are likely to still prefer to go to their tailor.
Here are some pics of male and female fashion that I think could be useful pointers. If you have other ideas, please leave them in comments for discussion! I would say that in this city, you could probably get away with quite a lot of different looks as long as you're not, say, going about in a mini-skirt or have a bare head. (SO many awesome hat possibilities!)
19th century painting of Turkish woman by Amadeo Preziosi.
Paul Poiret, a French designer, was very influential in the early 20th century, bringing an Orientalist approach to women's clothing which I think could resonate with our game:
Here's some amazing Turkish bridal wear:
And here are some Ottoman men - we see that there are phases of wearing fitted waistcoats and shirts, though there's usually an overgarment
And some beautiful kaftans:
Love this one for a kid: 
Who knows what the Byzantines would have ended up doing if their empire hadn't collapsed! But for comparison, here's a lovely pic of two Byzantine saints painted in the 15th century.
And some Dress Reform:
A related, though with different goals, movement was Aesthetic Dress, subscribed to by Oscar Wilde, such as this:
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Date: 2012-04-28 07:26 pm (UTC)(My fashion history knowledge mostly ends around the 18-teens/twenties, where switching breeches for trousers was still a new and rather scandalous thing - so informal! XD The idea of a reversal of this is intriguing... scandalous bestockinged men's calves!)
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Date: 2012-04-28 07:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-28 07:29 pm (UTC)So here are pretty things:
More bridal wear!
Ignore the crazy neckline on the second one. Yeah.
So much bling...
No real historical basis for any of this, but they are all very lovely and give (me at least) a nice starting point for such things.
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Date: 2012-04-28 07:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-28 08:02 pm (UTC)I'm going to need to make a second character just to wear all the awesome clothes :)
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Date: 2012-04-28 08:08 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2012-04-28 08:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-28 08:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-28 08:46 pm (UTC)PLAY ALL THE CHARACTERS!
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Date: 2012-04-28 09:30 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2012-04-28 09:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-28 10:41 pm (UTC)such as:
Those are couple of my favorites though there is an entire site full of more variations...
Crap. Can someone help me with the links. I suck at computer stuff.
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Date: 2012-04-28 10:51 pm (UTC)http://www.foresia.com/index.php?sw=7&action=search&look=642
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Date: 2012-04-28 11:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-28 11:20 pm (UTC)If Jack doesn't feel like Randolph would have a kid, I'd be up for Ashraf having a daughter! I feel like he would be fairly clueless as to how to deal with her, which could be amusing. "Buy some more clothes? That makes you feel better?" *helpless face*
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Date: 2012-04-28 11:21 pm (UTC)Now that the idea is in my mind, I'm picturing a British girl, partly because I know more about the culture! But if Jack doesn't want Randolph to have kids, then I could be Ashraf's hilariously snotty fashion-obsessed daughter :)
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Date: 2012-04-29 12:39 am (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2012-04-29 01:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-29 01:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-29 01:15 am (UTC)(Also, this (http://www.ravelry.com/patterns/library/catkin)? Top picture? Which I post here for those I have not linked it at.)
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Date: 2012-04-29 01:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-29 05:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-29 08:35 pm (UTC)I was wondering how we were going to play the Muslim head-scarf, as around this time/early 20th century in our world it became seen as antiquated and anti-progression... mostly thanks to to western ideals being so prevalent. I wasn't sure whether with the earlier onset of an industrial revolution, if this would push 'modernity' to the fore earlier and thus traditional religious head-coverings out of fashion. Glad to know my character isn't in the minority!
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Date: 2012-04-29 10:04 pm (UTC)ALTHOUGH I would love it if some badass East Arabian women showed up wearing these.
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Date: 2012-04-29 10:05 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2012-04-29 11:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-29 11:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-04-30 05:01 am (UTC)For a slightly more fantastical bent, I was looking into the illustrations of Yoshitaka Amano, in particular his original watercolors for Final Fantasy VI - he's always had a buit of an Orientalistic, Turkish influence, but these I find utterly gorgeous:
http://www.ffmerchandise.com/character_ffvi.htm
I'd post the picc but they're kinda huge.
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Date: 2012-04-30 11:44 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-05-01 04:27 am (UTC)